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  1. Bruce Moreland
  2. General Discussion
  3. Thursday, January 26 2017, 12:49 AM
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I was just giving an update on my Neutral Density Filter question and noticed that it had been three months since promising to address digital clicktiques. I was also surprised to notice that in (our blog, I had addressed four other technical issues that might be of interest (Camera Limitations, Adding A Signature To Your Image and Changing The Color Of Your Signature (to satisfy an earlier promise), and just this week How To Use Vanishing Point To Resize Animals You Move Around In Post-Processing). I guess I'd better get busy on that Clicktique idea.

I have been party to earlier discussions on moving into the future by replacing our existing paper Clicktiques with a digital version, and we have experimented with digital Clicktiques in the recent past. In my newest proposal, the word "or" may not have a place in the conversation.

If we were to make any changes to the way we do things, now would be the time to iron things out so that any plans would be ready to implement by the beginning of the next competition year. My hesitation to even bringing this up, however, has to do with manpower - our current de facto Clicktique Chairman also happens to be the President, and may already be stretched thin, and my work schedule doesn't allow me to put much "money (or time) where my mouth is", but we still need to discuss this and maybe we might inspire enough passion for somebody else to step forward. I will try to present my ideas as soon as we get back from our next trip, but if you would like to start now, please feel free to join in.
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Considering how easy this proposal would have been to implement, and the fact that adding digital would in no way devalue the current print competition, I was really disappointed in our decision not to move forward. As best as I can tell, we are waiting until digital standards of display catch up to print standards. Since most pictures today are exchanged, displayed, and enjoyed digitally, I think this is a frivolous argument. In my proposal, digital would only compete with digital, print with print, so the fact that the current de facto standards and expectations are different for the two media would not be a factor. By completely ignoring the digital realm, the club is once again abdicating their responsibility.

The general reader should know that our company, Bee Happy Graphics, makes its money selling photographic prints, and I don't see that market drying up anytime soon; nor am I advocating for its demise. I just believe it's the clubs responsibility to embrace photography in all forms and genres. I should also point out that the opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of management (KCC or Bee Happy Graphics).

Again, what do you think?
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  1. more than a month ago
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Robert Chaplin responded to Fred by e-mail. His comments are included here for completeness.

_________________________________________________________________________________

To All,

While not a member, I appreciate being included in this [discussion].

Without knowing for sure if this subject is about the Digital Clicktique organized by Mike Harris and having not seen the comments by Bruce and Robert S., I can only speak to my involvement as a judge in the Digital Clicktique and visual critique challenge organized by Mike Harris.

I judged and provided visual critiques to the KCC for a little more than a year. It fell apart for me when I became too busy to provide the service on a monthly basis, and as I recall the program fell off schedule, which made it hard (on my part) to plan. It seems to me Fred is correct about the demise by stating the digital critique required separate manpower. More than that, it relied on one or two members and one judge to administer the program, and once Mike was not involved it seemed there was no continuity to continue. It is a challenge getting volunteers to help with programs, and adding more programs compounds the problem. The compromise of including a digital critique on alternating months seems reasonable. There is an expense with printing and matting images, so the club may get more involvement with a digital clicktique. Digital photography is here and as Fred points out, the big organizations have moved to this format for competitions. In fact, I am currently one of the judges in an annual photo contest for the Dry Tortugas and all images are submitted to me in a digital format. See https://www.drytortugas.com/contest/ and scroll down to "meet" the judges.

Speaking as a judge, it seems it would be important to have more than one judge providing this service. First, to provide different perspectives, skill levels, and experiences, and second to keep from, for lack of a better word, burning out the judges.

I enjoyed helping with the Digital Clicktique and Visual Critique and would hope to be invited to do so again, but on a basis like the Print Clicktique.

Remaining a Friend of the KCC,

See you in the Glades...


Robert L. Chaplin
R.L. Chaplin Photography, Inc.
10871 SW 188th Street, Unit 2
(305) 252-8034
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Robert made the above comments 2/20/2017. After reading other comments on this forum, he added the following on 2/21:



__________________________________________________________



Hi Bruce,



I have more ideas and suggestions for the digital and print Clicktiques . . . .



I do believe that print Clicktiques are extremely important. There are digital images that seem to have the quality but will not stand up to printing. While I think there is an importance to digital Clicktiques, it seems to me there is nothing more valuable than a print version to demonstrate the quality of the digital print. That is why Nat Geo and other competitions require hi-res images for their competitions.



I appreciate being associated with the KCC.



Please do not hesitate to let me know how I can help.



Robert L. Chaplin

R.L. Chaplin Photography, Inc.

10871 SW 188th Street, Unit 2

(305) 252-8034
  1. Bruce Moreland
  2. 8 months ago
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Thanks, Robert for getting us started. I agree with your comments about Robert Chaplin. He was great (even though I haven't spoken to him in a while, he probably still is). And I agree with your comments about the merits of physical prints. But, as you mentioned, the debate between digital and physical prints is an old one, and one that I now feel was misguided. Just as I am not here to convert my fellow club members from Nikon to Canon (and it is not the club's job to do so), neither should we be touting one medium over another. You also mentioned the value to the club of the digital competitions. The truth is that a large percentage of our information and photography today is exchanged digitally. To ignore that would be foolhardy. Rumor has it that "back in the day", the Clicktique included film and slide and (I believe) black & white competitions all at the same event. I'm not sure what form our digital competition should take, but it is my proposal to make both formats equal participants in the monthly and annual competitions, both earning points for things like the Photographer of the Year award. Although it would be great to resurrect the separate digital competition, considering the perpetual manpower crunch (that we share with all volunteer groups), I'm thinking the best way may be to incorporate it right into the monthly Clicktique using the same judges. Questions like "Would we have to put blinders on the judges during the print part of the competition so they don't peek at the projection screen" (and other issues) would have to be worked out, of course. At least that's how I look at it. Thanks for listening. The floor is now open to other viewpoints.
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Hi Bruce,

I'll kick start the conversation with my thoughts on "Digital Clicktiques".

I am a huge proponent of bringing back the Digital Clicktique that we used to conduct which were judged by Robert Chaplin. I always thought that this was an important part of Kendall Camera Club, probably because I came to KCC when the Digital Clicktique was in 'full swing'. I really liked how Robert Chaplin critiqued the images and provided his version of post processing as an alternative or an improvement to our images. It was also a nice touch there was a prize for the winner (usually a photography book). I was very disappointed when we lost the Digital Clicktique due to the lack of manpower to manage it and take care of the behind the scenes work that it required. With the end of the Digital Clicktique, we lost a great resource in Robert Chaplin and that is a shame. I would love to see the return of the Digital Clicktique!

However, I seem to gather from your post that you are proposing that we move from submitting physical prints to Clicktiques and, instead, submit our images digitally. This has been discussed numerous times between members as well as at board meeting. The consensus has always seemed to be against doing so. I am not a supporter of making the change from physical prints to digital for several reasons.

Although there are many digital competitions these days, there are also still quite a lot of competitions for physical prints. Submitting physical prints means that the presentation and quality of the print itself is also subject to judging. There are many variables involved with the production and display of physical prints such as choice of paper (matte, glossy, or metallic); type and color of matte; etc. that I think should continue to be judged. After all, some of us may display our work in other venues or submit physical prints to other competitions (such as those of the Florida Camera Club Council that KCC and all of our members are members of) and having the benefit of judging and critiquing our prints could provide us valuable insight to use in the improvement of our prints.

So, while I would not like to see our Clicktiques changed to digital submissions (for more reasons than I listed), I would definitely love to see the return of the Digital Clicktique as we used to know it.

Robert
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Hi Bruce:



It is with much interest that I read your comments and those

of Robert Sullivan concerning Digital Clicktiques in the KCC

Discussion Forum.



Bruce, I am taking the liberty of sending this email to several

members to keep them in the loop.



On this subject, you correctly state that now is the time to make

plans for our next Club year. Here are some brief thoughts.



a) Our earlier Digital Clicktique was lost precisely because it

operated as a separate entity requiring separate manpower

different from our established Print Clicktique.



b) Each month we ALREADY have been submitting our Clicktique

entries digitally, resized. So it would appear that no additional

manpower may be needed if we submit the actual file size of

each entry (subject to some limitation).



c) To any member who may not be comfortable with digitally

manipulated images, please bear in mind that photographers

have been manipulating their images for generations by dodging,

burning, cropping, sandwiching and adjusting exposure in their

darkroom. Today, those same manipulations are done in the

computer.



d) So how do we satisfy the proponents of both Print and Digital

Clicktiques? Let's try the practical solution. My proposal is that

we combine them both: one month for prints only, followed by

the next month for digital only, alternating.



e) If the above solution is acceptable, then let us promptly set up

a "trial run" of one or two months for Digital only, so that the

relevant parts may take center stage, e.g. the projector, the screen,

etc.



f) Camera clubs across the country have been using digital entries

for many years. It would be judicious if our KCC advanced into the

digital era.



Hopefully our Board will consider these suggestions. To get this

project rolling, I shall show below excerpts from the National

Geographic Photo Contest and from the Popular Photography Photo

Contest.



Fred



-----------------------------------------------------------



NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC PHOTO CONTEST 2015

REQUIREMENTS: ( EXCERPT )



Photographs must be in digital format. Only online entries will be eligible. No print or film submissions will be accepted for entry into this Contest. The photograph need not be taken with a digital camera; scans of negatives, transparencies, or photographic prints are acceptable. All digital files must be 20 megabytes or smaller, must be in JPEG or .jpg format, and must be at least 1,600 pixels wide (if a horizontal image) or 1,600 pixels tall (if a vertical

image).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



POPULAR PHOTOGRAPHY Photo Contest



When submitting your photograph(s), please specify in which category you are entering. File Specifications: submissions should be in JPEG format. Your JPEG compression must be set to maximum image quality. In Photoshop, save your file via Save As, select JPEG for your image type and put the quality slider to 12 (all the way to the right to 12.)



JUDGING: The judging will be done by the editors of Popular Photography magazine. Entries will be judged equally on creativity, technical expertise and aesthetic value. Entries will be ranked in descending order. The decisions of the judges are final and binding in all respects.





  1. Fred Kong
  2. 8 months ago
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